CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Interview With Stacey Abrams

Interview

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TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. I'm Jake Tapper.

Two of the most closely watched and hotly contested midterm races are now over.

Late Saturday, Democrat Andrew Gillum, the mayor of Tallahassee, conceded the Florida governorship to Republican former Congressman Ron DeSantis.

And, Friday, Stacey Abrams acknowledged in a speech that Republican Brian Kemp will be the next governor of Georgia, saying that democracy failed her state.

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STACEY ABRAMS (D), FORMER GEORGIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: This is not a speech of concession, because concession means to acknowledge an action is right, true, or proper.

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TAPPER: Abrams is now planning to launch a federal lawsuit against the state for what she called gross mismanagement of the election.

And joining me now for her first national interview since ending the race is Stacey Abrams, the former minority leader of the Georgia Statehouse.

Leader Abrams, thanks so much for joining us.

You said that -- quote -- "Democracy failed in Georgia."

Obviously, you're referring to some of the messy process of democracy, as you -- as you called it, incompetence and mismanagement. But do you think that there was deliberate interference in the election?

ABRAMS: Yes.

And I believe it began eight years ago with the systematic disenfranchisement of more than a million voters. It continued with the underfunding and disinvestment in polling places, in training, and in the management of the county delivery of services. And I think it had its pinnacle in this race.

[09:15:05]

But, a few months before, in May of 2018, the Republican primary had to be called for a do-over because a number of voters did not receive accurate ballots.

We know that there has been a dramatic discrepancy in the way absentee ballots are both allocated and counted across the 159 counties. And so, yes, there was a deliberate and intentional disinvestment and I think destruction of the administration of elections in the state of Georgia. TAPPER: Well, let me ask you, because Kemp, when he was secretary of

state, did oversee a process in which 1.5 million voters were removed from the voting rolls.

Here in Washington, D.C., which is hardly a Republican stronghold, if you don't vote in the last four years, you're removed from the voting rolls, and I don't think anybody thinks that's disenfranchisement. That's just people being removed from the rolls because of inactivity.

What's the difference between what Kemp did -- and if you don't vote within three years in Georgia, you're removed from the rolls -- and what they do all over the country, including here in Washington?

ABRAMS: Maintaining clean voter rolls is absolutely appropriate, but the vigor with which he did so and the mismanagement with which he did so -- a perfect example is the 92-year-old civil rights activist who's lived in the West End of Atlanta for more than 40 years, has voted in every single election since 1968 in that neighborhood, and she was removed from the polls.

She went to vote, and her daughter had to take more than two hours to get her access to a provisional ballot. This is someone who has never failed to vote.

And so the problem we have is that it's death by 1,000 cuts. It's not sufficient to simply purge voters from the rolls for inactivity. He removed voters who were eligible. He also denied access to more than 3,000 new citizens who should have been added to the rolls, but he prevented them from being able to vote.

And the larger issue is this. Trust in our democracy relies on believing that there are good actors who are making this happen. And he was a horrible actor who benefited from his perfidy. That's problematic.

TAPPER: Take a listen to what Ohio Democratic Senator Sherrod Brown said about your race just a few days ago.

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TAPPER: So, Sherrod Brown says the election was stolen.

Do you agree that it was stolen? And do you think that Brian Kemp is not the legitimate governor-elect of Georgia?

ABRAMS: The law, as it stands, says that he received an adequate number of votes to become the governor of Georgia. And I acknowledge the law as it stands. I am a lawyer by training. And I am someone who's taken a constitutional oath to uphold the law. But we know, sometimes, the law does not do what it should and that

something being legal does not make it right. This is someone who has compromised our systems. He's compromised our democratic systems. And that is not appropriate.

And, therefore, my mission is going to be to make certain no one else has to face this conversation. Going forward, we are going to ensure that they are fair fights in the state of Georgia and that voter protection is more than a slogan, that it is actually a common cause that cuts across partisanship, because, as I said, there are Republicans who were harmed, Democrats who were harmed, independents who were harmed.

And that is wrong in one of the original 13 colonies, one of the founding blocks of our democracy. And I want Georgia to be better.

TAPPER: Is he the legitimate governor-elect of Georgia?

ABRAMS: He is the person who won an adequate number of votes to become the governor...

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: But that's not -- with all due respect -- and I respect where you're coming from, and I respect the issues that you're raising -- you're not answering the question.

Do you think...

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ABRAMS: I am answering -- no, what I will not do...

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TAPPER: You're not using the word legitimate. Is he the legitimate governor-elect of Georgia?

ABRAMS: He is the legal governor of Georgia.

And here's the thing, Jake. I want to be very clear. Words have meaning. And I have spent my lifetime not only as an attorney, but as a writer. And I'm very careful with the words I choose.

And, yes, when he takes the oath of office, he will be the legal governor of the state of Georgia. He is the legal victor.

But what you are looking for me to say is that there was no compromise of our democracy, and that there should be some political compromise in the language I use. And that's not right.

What's not right is saying that something was done properly, when it was not. I will never deny the legal -- the legal imprimatur that says that he is in this position. And I pray for his success.

But will I say that this election was not tainted, was not a disinvestment and a disenfranchisement of thousands of voters? I will not say that.

TAPPER: Well, just -- just to be clear, I don't have an opinion on what you should say or should not say. I'm just trying to get -- I'm trying to understand where you're coming from.

ABRAMS: Oh, I understand.

TAPPER: Are you -- are you at all concerned that your words this morning and in your speech Friday will undermine faith in the democratic process?

ABRAMS: Not at all, because the words I use are very specific.

[09:20:01]

We have had systematic disenfranchisement of voters. We have seen gross mismanagement of our elections. And we have seen an erosion of faith in our democracy in our state. Those are all true facts.

But these are all solvable problems. And that's why I'm proud to be an American. That's why I'm proud to be a Georgian. And it's why I'm taking up Fair Fight Georgia, because faith is not enough. We have to have action married to that faith.

And I don't believe that you are trying to cast aspersions or cause me to say anything, but what I am being clear about is that I'm choosing my words very carefully because words have meaning.

And we have to have leaders who will actually speak truth and not engage in political compromise for ease. We have to have people who are going to fight to make sure our democracy works for everyone, because there are Republicans who are going to win elections because of what we do.

There are going to be independents who finally gain a foothold because of what we do. And that is what's right in a democracy.

TAPPER: I want to just give you an opportunity to answer this, because this is going to be the big question coming out of this interview.

President Trump, based on no evidence, cast all sorts of aspersions on the election in Florida, and what was going on with the recounts and what was going on with the counts. He alleged fraud. He alleged theft. And he was criticized widely by Democrats and Republicans for doing so.

How is what you're doing any different from what he did?

ABRAMS: My accusations are based entirely on evidence.

We had four different federal judges in the course of a week say that what we witnessed was wrong and forced better behavior.

And what I'm simply asking for is another court to force even stronger behaviors, legal reforms that will guarantee that no one has to question the legitimacy of our election.

Dan Gasaway is a Republican who lost a Republican primary because they failed to adequately provide ballots that were accurate. That was under Brian Kemp's watch.

And so this is not something that simply affected Democrats. This is not partisan. The head of the Tea Party in Georgia, Debbie Dooley, pointed out the gross mismanagement of how we administer absentee ballots.

So, I agree with the Tea Party. I agree with Republicans. We have to do better in Georgia. I'm simply using this moment to lift up this call to arms.

But I'm going to do so in a court of law, not in the court of public opinion, because I want people to understand what was flawed, but then what can be fixed. And, fundamentally, that's what I do, try to fix the problems I see.

TAPPER: And, lastly, Leader Abrams, this was the closest race for governor in Georgia since 1966.

A lot of people wondering, are you going to run for office in the future, perhaps for Senate in 2020?

ABRAMS: I'm going to spend the next year as a private citizen, but I do indeed intend to run for office again. I'm not sure for what, and I am not exactly certain when. I need to take a nap.

But, once I do, I'm planning to get back into the ring.

TAPPER: All right, Leader Abrams, have a good nap. And thank you so much for joining us this morning.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: We appreciate it.

ABRAMS: Thank you.

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